Episode 17: First Timers with Minso Kim - PhD in Critical Media Practices

Image of Minso Kim in long sleeve shirt

Unedited Podcast Transcript

E: Welcome to Wonder Star Tuesday. I'm so excited to have you here. Who are you?

M: My name is Minsoo Kim. I'm an artist, educator, and Ph.D. candidate at CU Boulder in the Department of Critical Media Practices. I am originally from Seoul, South Korea. I studied in Chicago for two years and now I'm doing my Ph.D. in Boulder,

E: That's amazing. Your life is so exciting. Where does your name come from?

M: My name comes from my original language, Korean, and it has some meanings behind it, like bright and clear.

E: Yes, that's beautiful. I love that. Yeah. And then we were just talking before we hopped on about the crazy weekly that you're having. Tell me what's on your docket this week.

M: Yeah, I have four big ones that I'm trying to finish up. I'm not sure whether I can make it or not. First I'm going to participate in a group exhibition at the Museum of Boulder this Friday. We're going to show some exhibits about the nature of technology media artworks. So please swing by! My second deadline is my proposal for my dissertation. Today, I'm going to meet my advisor to start out the next step move forward. The third deadline is my conference paper for an international symposium on electronic arts that happens next year. I loved that symposium because they are always changing their location every year. And the last one is I'm trying to apply for the fellowship. I need to figure it out with my advisor, but that's kind of my goal to finish all up this by Friday.

These last few weeks were kind of hectic weeks, but I really like being hectic.

E: We're just gonna hit those in order because this couldn't have gone better. I want to know about your life and you're giving me every little thing. So one thing I'm kind of hearing throughout all of these is electronic and arts. So why are you interested in that? What brought you to it?

M: The first experience of using the electronics in the artwork was for a sound performance piece because I was volunteering with a sound festival in Seoul back in 2008. The sound art festival goes beyond music to include any artistic form of sound, installation, performance piece At the time I was an art assistant for Tetsu Gawa. I was just following behind him and trying to like a figure out some electronic parts. At the time, I could speak a little bit of Japanese but now I forget lots of words. Ever since then I tried to work with the electronic parts that I built with him at the time.

E: How did you know how to build the electronic parts?

M: He did a workshop during the festival and then I had a chance to make my own circuit board with him.

E: Did you know, electrical engineering beforehand? I had no idea at all. He was my beginning point to think about using the electronic parts in my work. And then I tried a self-study through the people who I met through the festival.

E: Oh, what do you mean?

M: I met many faculty members from other universities who were using the electorate parts for their media art practice because I was in a painting department. My original background is in museum studies and paintings. So my practices are mostly watercolor shops or pencil drawings or the oil paintings or insulation, mainly with making things.

E: So how did you that was a painter hear about an electrical electronic engineering project in Japan? How does that story even start?

M: I like participating in lots of volunteering work. And then I love learning and languages. So I did English translation volunteering back then and then I wanted to like practice a little more with my Japanese.

E: I feel like you're just giving gifts everywhere. I'd love to learn more about all of that. How did you hear about Boulder experiments, and arts and technology? And did you feel fully prepared for that world when you jumped into it?

M: Oh, well, actually like I've been told about these beads groups from my friend who recently, graduated like Angie Eng.

E: I just heard about her yesterday. Oh, okay, tell me more.

M: She was living in Boulder a few years before me because she was doing her Ph.D. degree as well. And then she told me, "Oh, you should join the B.E.A.T. crew. They know lots of electronic arts and do lots of illustrating art installations. I joined like two years ago because I was making a new project.

E: What was that on?

M: It was the Ivy curtain project. So like these say people making robots that interact with humans being right, but I, but I think in a real natural environment, nature doesn't really care. They just live their own life. So I try to make seemingly random movements. I'm trying to mimic the seemingly random movement of plants into an artificial material that I'm weaving altogether; sewing electrical wires to make sure they are the functioning. Yes. So the Ivy curtain is mimicking the movement of the plants on the wall in a curtain form. Yes. So I made a like a design proposal at the human computer interaction conference, beginning of this year.

E: HCI is really hot right now.

M: Yes, yes, yes. So, I could demonstrate how we works, and I published the short paper for the concept and how it works with the short explanation of what kind of components used. If anybody is interested in robotics in an artistic way, you can google my name at the HCI conference and you can find some documentation videos.

E: I love that. Two interesting things over here. So and all of this work was based on the fact that you had these pieces of your brain, that are artistic electronic, human-computer interaction, you had all this holed up in your brain. You sound like the perfect person for B.E.A.T. What was that first interaction like? You had a lot to give and they had a lot to gain from your insights.

M: They were really open to embracing new ideas and new people. If you are a newcomer, they don't really have territorial offensiveness. They're trying to be more engaged and make more conversation to figure out when and which venue would fit with this particular artist to work with for the next events they organize. So I think they're being really like engaging and embracing.

E: Oh, I love that. And so I also feel like for you to value those assets in a group, it also shows that those are part of your own personality. You value openness and welcoming and you're also super ridiculously smart and know so many languages. So here is the big question for today? Why does a person who has all of what you got going on pursue a Ph.D.? It seems like you didn't really need one. You had the connections, you wrote the papers, you had so much going on. Why is it worthwhile for someone to pursue a Ph.D. in art?

M: It is always important to learn things every day because every day is different. And every day, we are all moved forward in some way. So, like, even though I'm saying I did all that, it's all in the past. I think that past experience made me choose the direction where I am right now. But it does not really define what I can do right now. That's why I'm trying to meet people outside of my departments to learn something that I don't know about. I just like learning new things even if I am not good at it or I cannot be good at it. It is always good to know, something is going on outside of my artistic world. I'm always thinking about things in a strange or outside of the normal way, but at the same time, I want to be on earth so I need somebody else to give me the vibes to bring me back to the earth. That's why I love to meet people through beat who has lots of backgrounds from computers engineerings or the like a radio podcaster right here. Also like the broadcasting systems or filmmakers like everybody else. They're all my teachers and my company at the same time.

M: I'm feeling all the feelings. Okay, so your group exhibit is this Friday. Is it your first time exhibiting with a group in Boulder? I can say is I can say it is my second group exhibition like but it is my first group exhibition, at a fixed venue.

Yeah. What do you mean? Because I participate in the community art piece during depending the bunny projects I've never heard. Oh, it was a bunch of different artists, draw some bunny or making bunny figures and distribute at the apples. Poultry stores to make sure people have a like a positive, five of the, like, cuteness of the bunny during the pandemics seasons because lots of lesser windows of the stores were quite empty.

Yeah. And like people who are organized this body project wants to give a whole community, being a little bit being in the bright, you know, during this dark moment feel like. So I draw some buddy on a wooden panel and I gave it to the organizer. And they place by bunny at the box car.

Super cool. Yeah. So, for a while, my drawing was there. So that was my first like polar exhibition. Yeah but this bolder museum is more like a museum piece or the exhibition venue. So I can say this is my first like a group exhibition participation in bolder that sounds super apologies of saying our kawaii god.

Yeah. Kawaii kawaii. Yeah, so cute. How did you hear about that? So one of the organizers for the like, funny any project? Yeah was Angie. So okay, so Angie definitely important here and she said, like do you want to do it? And I say, sure I control. Okay, that's my background.

I could draw some stuff like yeah. So that's how any sounds kind of amazing. I have the connect with her later. Oh yeah. And then the next big thing that you brought up was a dissertation proposal. What's your dissertation on also? What is a dissertation? Oh, so dissertation means it.

So when you want to graduate the like master's degree or PhD degree, then you need to write up certain amount of patient number of explanations. So what's your research interest? This and masters degree? Like you guys think saying like thesis as part of the requirements for graduating that degree and for the PhD degree we need a need to call the longer version of thesis and we call it and dissertation.

No way I've heard both of those words, use interchangeably. It turns out they are not interchangeable, thank you for clarifying. So what's your dissertation on? I'm my dissertation is related to biophilia. What does that mean? Yes, it's so interesting, right? So biophilia means it is an urge to be connected to the nature or the living other or or other living organisms in a natural space.

So boulder. Yeah, that's right. And like, my points for, from that concept is like a revolution because the Edward Wilson who popularized the term biophilia is that like, said, like, trying to define it because it is kind of not super old concept to go with what who was the first one.

Like somebody called from he first suggested the term Bioophilia in 1970s and then Edward Wilson tried to popularize that that terms in 1980s and and now loss of like robotics architecture and design and bioethics fields trying to define what biophilia means are. However, this is kind of biophilia doesn't all only means the philia, the love or infection, but also includes the meanings of like accompanying feelings revolution because even though you want to be engaged with the natural components, but at the same time, you have a little bit of fears.

What if this, natural components give us harm like mushrooms? Yes. Yeah, that's a good example to think of out. Yeah. So, so people trying to say that this love, I cannot say hate, but liking and this tastefulness can come all together. So I'm trying to focusing on the how this revulsion that comes from the biophilia as a company feeling effecting, like like us humans perception of like, like a new technology base like need to take the loaded base like media or that using the living organisms.

So yeah, that is really interesting and like my brain immediately mapped onto mushrooms because I think about the fact that they're a delicacy and so many cultures, and communities, and their deliciousness for some people. They can also kill us super easily. Like so like, sometimes, they don't even have to try really hard.

They just be around us, so we can breathe in their spores and we can die. Yes, yes. That's horrifying. Exactly, exactly, that's so right. Yes, so some people like this, it was a steward. I think like s colored. I don't remember his first name but he tried to like defineing this like repulsive feelings as a biophobic.

Yeah. But just like, so he's think that we humans innately learned and nature can give us a good and bad. So he's trying to like understand this repulsive feelings in biophilia and as like evolutionary theory approach, like we tried to like adjusting ourselves our lifestyles in nature by, you know, through learning experiences.

So so so when you see something else, you can have both loving and avoidance at the same time to figure to decide like either eat it or not or you know, oh my gosh, I love it or not. It sounds like my last relationship but so how does one decide to focus on that?

And what specifically about biophilia is your dissertation on? Because I love that. You gave me that overview, but I like, I'm thinking about how do we make this real? Like, what does it really? So, so it is one of my example work is that I'm trying to trying to identify the cycles of this like a revolution.

Well, there's cycles. Yeah, I think there is a cycle of the feeling because like, I think we are all like, love each other, right? And I think this like repulsion can transform into like neutral feelings or even the I'm like another step forwarded type of like a love. Can can appear in media artwork art pieces.

So one of the examples that I'm going to analyze to identify such cycle is like a film. So really, yes, films. So what was this? Mmm. Oh the very first digital captured animation. Was a polar express that published in 2004 with that Christmas movie. Yeah. All right. Christmas is coming.

Yeah so it was kind of the first knowledge captured movie with the real human being. Yes. And because it was kind of a first of its kind technology. When they first came to the public people say it is so creepy because it was so awkward. And I get the time and that causes people didn't want to see the movie at the whole time.

However, I figured like a viewers love to Washington the movie, right? So so I think this kind of like s over time as we adjust ourselves to watching this like digital captured movie, we our like our state comfort level with it. Yeah, comfort level is getting like getting higher and higher.

With this first, it was seemingly strange, but now it's getting looking nice. Not only just because the technologies advancement, but also, ourselves being adjusted with this new technology. Now, it is just a normal technology. So, I felt that these kind of revolt starting from the revolution, to the neutral, or the unliking feelings that comes from the, the use of the human bodies in digital space.

With technology, can give us the reference to understand the cycle of revulsion to the normalization. And yeah, that is one of the examples that I'm going to use in my dissertation. And there is another examples will follow in, in my book. So, I love that. I love that. I also appreciate that.

I'm starting to really feel how tech is influencing so much of because it reminds me of the industry life cycle, and new adopters and laggards. And the fact, that that first digital iteration. Oh my gosh. Now that you're saying that I was kind of creepy, it was a little creepy, but I still felt excited to be an early adopter that technology, but I can also understand what you're saying about how the chasm between the first people who initially were side about it to the nowadays when we're like, oh, everything's practically digital that that time period was longer than possibly expected because of your philia phobia mechanisms.

That's super helpful. And now, we're going to shift on to your conference paper. What is your conference favorite? What is the conference, everything? So, the conference venue that I'm targeting right now is internationals, symposium, and electronics? Is that related to EA the games company? No, it is not okay, it's not.

So this venue is focus. This on. The electronic are electronic media art pieces. Mainly, what is electronic art media piece. Mmm, that's a good point. So anything that you see the circuit board or even if it is a video piece, it is also considered the electronic art because it using electricity.

So the enemy are that used electricity can be called electronic arts for that menu, I guess. Yeah. And the conference paper is like partly about example, work that I'm going to analyze in my dissertation right now. So my dissertation is kind of a collection of my conference papers that oh, super smart super surprised.

So at this venue, I'm trying to focusing on what was it about right now. I'm writing. Yeah, any tell me just one. Um, okay.

Yes. So it is about the yuck factor. Wait, I've heard of this. What is that again? Yes, y'all vector is kind of a description of, like, things that you things that make you feel like repulsive feelings. You really have to repulsion? Yeah. Like, because it's all comes from the nature, but we only focusing on the positive size for now, but I think positives can be highlighted by having this shadow behind that, and I think those can make a nice symbiotic relationship.

So that's why I'm trying to like using the most like, like loving and distastefulness of the biophilia. So, but the term yacht factor comes from bioethics. Yeah, it is kind of a nodded. It first came out with the like we have a gut feeling, right? We've got feeling and disc, golf, feeling can make us to do some more decisions.

That is kind of basic like definition people, my making but as time passes since our society going move forwards and technology move forwards. The this got feeling can be changed, right? But in bioethics feel this, like, young factor has been like, changing their like terms into many different ways.

However, people just thinking about instantaneous of this repulsive feelings and describe it with their terms. Like bioethics, they using your yoke factor robotics, they're focusing on the uncandy valley as a result. So, smart. Oh my gosh. Okay, thank you. And these like, these terms are only focusing on the instantaneous of people's viewers reactions towards the media art pieces.

However, to to me, I love to identify this cycle of like the faded faithlessness of this repulsion so that I spell it from your fitness fadingness. Yes. What do you mean like to me, this like trent emotional transition from motion to normalization, is losing, not losing the, the feelings of revolutions is fade away and and the the love behind this revulsion appeared to the surface over time.

Do you feel why we accepting them as a normal in our near future in current compared to the past? Do you feel all repulsion has loved behind it? That's a big thanks. Yeah. I think that's a really big state, right? I'm not sure. But might be there, it could be.

There might be inch. Wow, I feel like that's something. We're gonna have a hold of me next time. Yeah, like I'm philosopher to think about love and hey dynamics, there's something. Oh my gosh. Imagine that Taylor Swift lyric where she was. Like, I forgot the two existed. It's not even that I like don't like you or don't love you anymore.

It's just I forgot that you existed. I think about the fact that love the opposite of love isn't hate. It's like, it's like, like, like you don't care at. All right, day difference in different. Yeah. Oh my god. Okay, I I love conferences. I feel like you're summit. Your presidential will be over my head and now I'm super hyped to go.

Remind us the name. What is this conference? Again, this conference is international symposium on electronic arts and you're going to obviously get it. Obviously I have to write it. No no we're a hundred percent sure. Yeah. But so where is it? When is it? When can we see you?

Oh, like this year, that's imposing happens. Not this year. The next year this conference will happens in Spain. So if you guys are interested to applying to showing some your artworks or showing some your conference work, then that will be your summer destination. Okay. I feel like you also are secretly a travel guide.

You called in a summer. This animation. I'm gonna pack my swimsuit. Oh yeah. So we're on our next to last piece here. So you mentioned a fellowship, what is a fellowship and what is the one that you're specifically applying for? Oh and why why? That's you're so involved. So just fellowship.

Well I need to talk with my advisor first. However, yeah, but this fellowship for the completing the dissertation because like for now I'm I'm on the first semester of my course here right now and my fun day can last for four years. So I really need some some like a backup plans.

And after my one year period and I I think I can give a shots to try to like funding my like extra one year. PhD, study also don't listen to the fellowship. Sorry, what's the name of the fellowship? Oh, it is for the dissertation, completion fellowship. It's literally older.

Yes, through the CU Boulder. Okay, so we have to send them this episode, so just in case, they don't understand how smart you are. They're gonna fully understand it now, after this episode, I love it. I'm here for it. Okay, so we are near the last two question, Okay?

So what kind of person should apply for a PhD at the intersection of tech and art? Oh that's a really good questions. Oh well, I actually I think I think. Mmm. I think people who want to be in academia to give or share, your experience is to your students, or your future colleagues, then in maybe the way to having the it is good to have a PhD for the artistic way of like people whoing using electronic pieces for artistic ways because it is hard and I don't know.

Yeah. But you learn a time? Yes. Yeah. I think you're able to share those learnings right, right. Yes. And also if someone who is willingly to learn something outside of your field, then I think PhD program will be really helpful. Because during the undergrad level we can just focusing on the department.

Where are you interested in to get a job that related to the field? And the master's degree is kind of a little more in the study of the particular department studies, right? But I think a PhD level is going back to the starting points to finding the new connection between your field and another related field.

So it is more like a interdisciplinary studies to finding the new knowledge. So if you're interested in finding finding new connection between your study and other people's study then I think PhD degree can be kind of your pathway. Yeah. Okay so you definitely owe you money. You just described that so well I'm half convinced supply for PhD.

Now this wasn't the goal. Okay, absolutely last question. You've been fantastic choose a number one through six. Oh. Oh well why everyone wanted three. Six one, four, beautiful. Okay, who is your warmest wonderstar? And that could be anyone in your life. That wonders are someone in your life, who's had a profound impact and warmest?

You get to take that. However, you want, that could mean that they are hot and spicy and every time you see them you get just so excited or it could be someone who's makes you feel so much love and yours itself. Or someone who's literally warm like every time you touch them, they're burning up.

But you're like, very concerned for their health. You can take that anyway. You want. Oh my star. My wonders are. I could say my my grandmother taking matter. Yeah, she like current like a few years ago. She was diagnosed the dementia. So she's in a cares. Care center right now, back in my home.

So she always gave me to think about the positive side. And she always being like encouraged me to to this like artistic past and even this academy like career past as well. So yeah, I think she could be my worst like inspiration stars. Oh, and I literally, like to staring at stars, too, like, yeah, okay.

So you're a real one. Okay. Okay, this is fantastic means. So I love this, where can people find? You can't find me through emails or you can find my name through the CMCI. Was that stand for a college of media communication and information? I see your bolder website, particularly department of critical media practices website.

I love it. And do you have a website? I feel like I saw your website. Yes, I have my website but I'm currently like under construction. So is Like I can share my website like temporary website address through email. I love it, I love it. Okay email address is.

Am I an SO dot k? I m at Colorado, dot edu. I love it. Okay, have a wonderful rest of your wonder song. Tuesday. Thank you very much Anthony. This is kind of a new experience. You was so glad happy time. Yeah. Bye you. Bye.